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Post by rarebit on Oct 29, 2010 11:53:23 GMT 12
You couldn't be more wrong. And you are either being disengenious or you obviously don't know much about Varenne if you think he had to wait until he was seven to start winning races. He just posted his fastest time then and not in America on a speed bike but in Norway, he'd already broken the world record a year before in the Breeders Crown when he demolished the best the Yanks could put out and they had some pretty decent trotters in those days, Dream Vacation, Magician, Fool's Goal et al. He actually started winning as a three-year-old, winning the Italian Derby. He only finished out of the money twice in 73 starts, and both of those times were disqualifications, funnily they were his first and last starts. He had 62 career victories, 6 seconds and 2 thirds and won US$5,919,961, a record that still stands nearly 10 years later, and with inflation. Take of your blinkers man. Varenne was one of the greatest, if not the greatest trotter of all time. And his progeny are racking up the dollars big time in Europe. And he nicks with American mares, his best mare at the moment Lisa America is out of a Victory Dream mare.
For the record his Major Wins were. Italian Trotting Derby (1998) Gran Premio d'Europa (1999) Gran Premio Tino Triossi (1999) Gran Premio Continentale (1999) Preis der Besten (1999) Gran Premio Delle Nazioni (1999) European 5-year-old Championship (2000) Olympiatravet (2000, 2002) Gran Premio della Lotteria (2000, 2001, 2002) Gran Premio U.N.I.R.E. (2000, 2002) Gran Premio Giubileo (2000) Prix d'Amérique (2001, 2002) Elitloppet (2001, 2002) Elite-Rennen (2001) Breeders Crown (2001) Trot Mondial (2001) Gala' Internazionale del Trotto (2001) Grand Criterium de Vitesse (2002) St. Michel Race (2002) Hugo Åbergs Memorial (2002) Jubileumspokalen (2002) World Cup Trot (2000, 2002) Awards Italian Horse of the Year (2000, 2001, 2002) French Horse of the Year (2001, 2002)
It was Tim Butt who recently said the future for trotting is in Europe. Who am I to argue. They don't mind waiting until they mature. And neither do most of the trotting owners in NZ.
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Post by bustoharland on Oct 29, 2010 13:20:47 GMT 12
i think the problem with trotters is that you have to wait until they mature, paying 15k a year just to let a horse work up and then spell isn't much fun...at least pacers you have something racing at least at 3 if not at 2
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Post by triplev123 on Oct 29, 2010 15:43:11 GMT 12
Rarebit. You've been knocking around with bloke who writes for the NZHRW too much. Every time you get pinned down you move the goal posts. That's his routine to a 'T'. Neither Revenue nor Varenne have to date nor will ever consistently produce outstanding 2yos & 3yos. It is just not in them. Attempting to breed that sort of horse to a NZ/Aus mare base that is also largely late maturing is, at least to my way of thinking, ridiculous. However, as I said, if you want to wait around until they're 7 be my guest, knock yourself out. You're a far braver man than I.
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Post by rarebit on Oct 29, 2010 16:25:40 GMT 12
You just don't get trotters do you?
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Post by triplev123 on Oct 29, 2010 16:33:56 GMT 12
Perhaps not, however judging by correspondence thus far I should count that as one of Life's small mercies.
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Post by bustoharland on Nov 6, 2010 13:54:33 GMT 12
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Post by rarebit on Dec 9, 2010 15:29:55 GMT 12
Having read with some dismay that Miami H is now out for the year, which is Muscles Yankee's top young trotter here (I feel sorry for his owner who is a nice bloke). I am just wondering what has happened to all those Muscles Yankees who should be running around in open class now - there are enough of them. For the record he has 64 progeny running around who between 3 and 6YOs, and they have returned the very good figures of 35 winners for more than a million dollars, with four over $100,000 and 6 over $50,000. But where are they? However a horse that is a fifth of the price, Dream Vacation has 52 progeny over between 3 and 7YOs who with 26 racewinners of about $50,000 more than Muscles Yankee. Dream Vacation has 3 winners over $100,000 including one winning well in the States, plus 8 over $50,000 (and another just over a grand under it). And there are some nice young ones coming through the ranks like McBlizzard and Jarvosaks who quinellaed at Addington a week or so back, and another couple in the top ranks in Auckland. But where are all the Muscles Yankees at $25,000 a pop. Sky Valley out young, Miami H out young. Do I see a pattern here. And they let Dream Vacation go. You Aussies should snap him up while you got the chance, especially if you have a Sundon mare. He is only $5000 and he is a steal. And the rising star in the trotters is not only from Dream Vacation mare, he is doubled back into the same maternal family and is by a lovely outcross in Windsong's Legacy = Chapter Seven.
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Post by bustoharland on Dec 9, 2010 16:15:53 GMT 12
rarebit thats actually a bit of an embarrassing post...how about down under muscles and let me thru... the 2 next big things in trotting ...i rate let me thru as the soon to be the best trotter in AUS
**which is pretty amazing considering his low number of progeny... and add miami h and skyvalley (who did a suspensory which happens to alot of topline horses)
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Post by rarebit on Dec 9, 2010 18:25:53 GMT 12
They ain't in NZ mate. And at $25.000 a pop he aint good value.
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Post by rarebit on Dec 9, 2010 18:29:41 GMT 12
You are a deadset ejit if you think 25,000 is good value if he throws two good ones. Sundon, Monarchy, Dream Vacation et al are FAR better value, and their progeny don't crap out at three or four, which is exactly the same complaint as the Europeans have. $5000 he is good value, $25,000 you are having a laugh. There aren't that many two and three year old races here, and a good trotter has to keep racing until he/she is 8 or 9.
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Post by rarebit on Dec 9, 2010 18:36:39 GMT 12
Geez mate. Alan Clark has a lovely Dream Vacation colt her. Brilliantly bred, shining out at the trials etc. And because there are NO two year old trotting races until the end of the year, he is having to race him against the older horses.
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Post by rarebit on Dec 9, 2010 18:37:36 GMT 12
And it's WORSE where you are from.
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Post by rarebit on Dec 9, 2010 19:11:59 GMT 12
Trotting is about improving with age. Where are the great 6 year old Muscles Yankees, the great five year old Muscles Yankees. They can beat their own age group, but where are they now. Where are all those six, five and four year old Muscles Yankees, and there are a swag of them. Of that 35 winners, only 14 are still racing. That's a huge drop off. There should be at least ONE open class trotter in New Zealand from three crops of racing age. Do you know how many Muscles Yankees are in the top 50 over 5YOs and over. THREE. Do you know how many Muscles Yankee 4YOs there are in the top twenty in NZ. NONE. My question, rather than being embarrassing, is actually pretty illuminating smart arse. You have a couple of good youngsters over there, where are they in the older brigades where the money is. At $25,000 a pop. You are having a laugh.
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Post by rarebit on Dec 9, 2010 19:17:54 GMT 12
Sundon is the best sire by a country mile, Monarchy and Armbro Invasion punch above their weight, but why are falling over yourselves to punt $25,000 to get a Muscles Yankee who will win a Breeders Crown, and then nothing else. And then you want to BREED from them. Skyvalley forget it.
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Post by rarebit on Dec 9, 2010 19:57:03 GMT 12
The BEST Muscles Yankees have been out of the Two of the BEST mares we have ever produced. Martina H and Chiola's Lass (Allegro Agitato), and to be frank, you aren't exactly a champion sire if the only good ones you produce are out of champion mares. The rest are pretty bloody ordinary IMO. Sorry Ged.
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